In this episode of the Fashion Photography Podcast we meet Corey Nickols (@unicornfightclub).
In today’s episode:
We talk about branding and how important is this process for a photographer.
Overcoming the struggles of the photography career.
How to maintain a sense of reality when you shoot high profile people.
How to create magic on set?
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Hello, photography lovers, today’s going to be the last part of our interview with Corey Nicholas, it was super amazing to have him here as a guest. And every minute of those three hours was super amazing. I already know that you truly love this interview because of all your amazing feedback on Instagram. And we’re always so happy when we’re able to provide you with some great content. Thank you guys for reaching out to us. And thank you so much for sharing the podcast because you know, this is a great help for us. So today we’re going to talk about branding, and how important this is for a photographer. Why should we do it? And how exactly do we need to reach out to professional so y process and cons of being a part of the popular kids crew in school and in business to Korea has given us some great advice and some very personal stories. Today, we’ll be talking about the celebrities and the people that we both really want to see in front of our lens.
So if you want to hear more,all you have to do is to stay with me Virginia host and this episode of the fashion photography podcast.
Corey Nickols
The one thing that I learned in school was that you’re essentially branding yourself. And no one should ever be confused on any platform that they go on to see your work, it should never stray away from the original intent. So like my portfolio is going to look very much in line to my website, which is going to look very much in line to my Instagram, which is going to look very much in line to my business cards. And any promos I send out everything needs to tie in. And that’s the biggest thing if somebody goes to one portfolio, and then they go to another place to see different work. And you seem like a completely different photographer, you’re kind of losing trust in that process, because they’re like, Who am I going to get? You know, like, I’m hiring this person for the shoot. But it seems like they do this. But then they do this and nothing seems consistent.
Virginia Y
Do you have any advice and branding? And I was really keen on asking you about your strategy about your photography? I’m very sure you have some sort of strategy, first of all, because as you said, Everything about you on the internet is very aligned, which I bad. It’s not a coincidence. So I bet you have some sort of strategy of where you’re going.
Corey Nickols
Yes, and no, the industry itself has changed more in the last five years than probably the last 30 years combined. Everything is changing dramatically. I’m going to plug a book that I been reading that I recommend people to read, if you’re interested in advertising, there’s a book that came out last year, you’re called frenemies, who definitely read it because it’s all about the changing dynamics of the ad world, and how much advertising and ad companies have just shifted. No one knows really where everything’s going, they have an idea. But it’s like the Wild West right now, because there’s so much technology, manipulating so much of the traditional sense of photography, you know, the industry would change once every 10 years about, you have a certain style that would stay in for about 10 years. And then it would go to somewhere else or people would want to see one thing. And then you want mailers, but then you want email. And then now you want both emails and mailers. And now we’re in a place where it’s almost the Wild West, and you’re constantly having to figure it all out for yourself, which is why I stress being friends with other photographers, because then you get an idea of what’s happening. As far as like branding, and all that stuff goes in school, very thankful my teachers made us get a graphic designer for brands. And their whole point was that you are not capable of just hiding photography, because literally, I can’t do anything else artistic, I can’t draw, I can’t sculpt. There’s no way I’m going to watercolor because that’s just insane. So the only thing that I can really do is photography, it literally is the only art I can do. Part of that is embracing it. And I think a lot of art is embracing the downfalls or short in your life. So for me to try and just work through and be like, I could save money by branding myself, okay, go ahead and brand yourself. But then when you go to an ad agency, understand that those people who are going to see the brand that you created, most of those guys, they went to school for graphic design. So know that you’re automatically being judged by people who actually have a training in graphic design. So if your graphic design or the way that you’re presenting itself doesn’t look professional, they don’t have to see one image, they’ve already got thoughts about you not being professional, that’s a bad start to begin with. Because then you gotta like push extra hard to regain their trust. So having yourself look perfect the whole way through. It’s super important. And I can’t stress it enough, the more you look professional in every single level of what you do, even if has nothing to do with photography, the better off you come as being a professional and I say this because I am a sloppy mess. A lot of times I really am i i’m very quirky, and very weird and very out there on some stuff. And I don’t expect people to know it or understand it. But at the same time, I realized that I’m presenting myself to people, and I have to March that line of like, Okay, how do you view a professional, I’m going to, like meet you with where you’re at and try and deliver on that.
Virginia Y
Have you ever, for example, lose a job because of, let’s say your Instagram?
Corey Nickols
This is the hot topic of social. I can tell you this. It’s sad that we live in a world where everyone cares about how many followers you have, and what is your engagement, because you could be missing out on amazing people doing amazing things just because what society has not deemed important I, that’s me just crazy. I think at this moment time, I think I’d like 2600 followers. And I realized that there’s ad jobs and different things that I don’t get considered for. Because from an advertising perspective, you’re spending so much money on these ads, you might as well get the most bang for your buck, right. So it makes sense to go with a photographer who has 30,000 followers, hundred thousand followers, because then they’re going to post it on their social media and its additional eyes on your product. And I like I get the whole logistics of all that stuff. But I think it’s sad because sometimes I feel like you’re missing out on the quality of it. You know, I it’s kinda like in school, everyone wants to hang out and be with the popular kids, right.
But what’s funny is, I spent so much of my childhood wanting to erase the quirkiness that I am and fit in with the popular crowd and the popular crowd burned me time and time again, to the point where you know, when I was in high school, I’ve been listening to punk music since I was in fourth grade. But when I when I got to high school, I decided a screw everyone, I’m not going to try to be popular anymore, I’m just going to be punk. So I started dressing how I felt and I dressed really crazy. And I painted my fingernails sparkly pink for about five years. And I did a lot of like crazy stuff. But part of it was to just feel like I could be myself. And the other part of it was to almost wear this armor that would protect me from these people who are cherry file in me. And through that process, I found the people that I really want to be hanging out with this whole time, we’re kind of like the rejects, I find that the people who are the rejects tend to be the most interesting people to talk to, they tend to be way more loving and compassionate than the popular people. And they tend to have way more to offer because it’s popular people I think they realize they’re popular and like I don’t really got to try anymore. So I just going to take and take and take and you you miss out on these really in depth people who have a lot offer. So I think the same should be said for social media, just because you have a huge following. It doesn’t mean that they’re going to be great quality people. There are those people out there. But there are also people who I think feel like they’re bringing you so much to the table, what are you going to do for them?
Virginia Y
I love that actually, this got me thinking about a previous topic that we talked about the people that you’re shooting, and sometimes they’re big celebrities, and they’re demanding so much attention for no real reason. And I think that’s very, very true. Many times when people reach a certain point, you’re like, I’m the most amazing one, and everyone needs me. And it’s not always like that. I also truly believe that people that are fighting a lot were what they want. And sometimes it’s taking quite a long time for them to reach that that place. They have so much more compassion to everyone else.
Corey Nickols
I would 100% agree. Do you know who actually are some of my favorite people photograph?
Virginia Y
Oh, tell me, I’ll tell you.
Corey Nickols
And then I’ll kind of go into other tangents as well, of course, because I wouldn’t be this podcast unless I went to different tangents. But I love photographing celebrities who have been in it for about 20 years. That’s kind of the sweet spot because the average celebrity and you can even just think of celebrities in the past, but the average celebrity has about a shelf life of about 10 years. If you’re really hot and popular. It’s about 10 years, and then and then you go into a cool down phase of about 10 to 20 years. And then I feel like society is totally up for you making a resurgence again. Case in point Macaulay Culkin, okay, like Macaulay Culkin everyone knows him from home alone, hot in the early 90s did a bunch of stuff and then dropped off for whatever reason whether it’s his choice, society just chose that they want to see someone different. I don’t know. But if you’ve noticed lately, Metallica is making a huge resurgence again. In fact, I think last year I think end of last year he put like I read this in the news, which I thought was amazing, but you know he did a poll to change his middle name. He let people vote on changing his middle name. So now Macaulay Culkin his new name is McCauley Macaulay Culkin Culkin.
Come on seriously. That’s serious. I’m dead serious. But But what’s really cool about that is here’s someone who had mass popularity and then kind of died off and then came back. And I have not met Macaulay Culkin, but he seems like he seems really cool. Like doing stuff like that. You gotta be pretty, pretty cool. in general. Someone who I loved growing up in the 90s is Louie Anderson Louie Anderson, I fanatically just I watched life with Louie, I just I love Louie Anderson, right. And then I got commissioned to photograph them two years ago. And keep in mind like Louie Anderson was huge in the 90s. And then it was periods of down and then all of a sudden he gets cast it on a show called baskets. And he actually won an Emmy from his performance on basketball. And what’s cool is Louis Allison is so nice. So, so nice. And I find that it’s easy to get caught up in the hype, and to think highly of yourself. Sometimes, like if the whole world and everyone’s enabling you into this like feeling of greatness, you can easily get lost in that and forget about who you are. And I find a lot of these celebrities who have written the high and then written the low, if they come back into another high, very thankful they understand where they’re at. And they’re very real and wonderful to work with. I can list off every single person who has a 20 plus career. great people. You know, john Lithgow Amazing, amazing, amazing guy. He’s almost like that cool uncle that you want to have, you know, it’s just, he’s a great guy. But everyone in my book quite photographed, who has had this long careers, I think they understand how fortunate they are. And it comes out in the way that they treat people.
Virginia Y
Have you ever been afraid that you might lose where you are right now?
Corey Nickols
A sense of it? I don’t so. And I say that, because my career has been strenuous, just to be very honest, I’m still fighting for jobs and still trying to get work. I feel like for the 10 and a half years that I’ve been doing photo, it’s been one constant, and I’m pushing this boulder up a hill, it’s really been able to develop a lot of my character through like the trials, because it has not been easy for me. I’ve seen a lot of people where it gets handed to them. And it’s very simple for them. What’s fascinating is, like my whole career has just been a struggle it To be honest, it really has been I’m not going to tell you that I’m wildly successful, or in that stuff. I in fact, have a lot of times I think people think the opposite. Because they see like, wow, you have all these names in your book while you photograph these people. Wow, that’s you must be like killing it right now. And then I’m like, dude, If you only knew that half the time my assistants get paid more than me because I have to do these shoots in hopes that I’m going to make up for money in the back end you like people don’t really realize that. And for me, the jobs that do come through that actually do pay the bills I’m so thankful for. I also I also spent years and years assisting where I would assist and then try and shoot on the side. I have so much respect for my team. If you ever worked for me, I don’t I don’t think I’ve ever yelled at someone. One time, there is a time where it got really hectic. And my digit tech was trying to tell me something they have so much going on. It was just like a little short with him. But even then, like as soon as it was over, I went to me and apologizes like I am so sorry, if I got a little short with you because it was just super hectic. I mean, anything’s possible, because I’m human, right, and I can become my own worst enemy. But I also feel like a lot of like, my personal beliefs helped me to maintain a sense of reality in that, you know, just because I photograph these people, it doesn’t mean that I get to skip out on being a decent person towards other people. It’s going
Virginia Y
to be so funny. Now if we receive like, thousands of emails with people complaining about you telling how rude you vinted
Corey Nickols
Oh, it’s gonna be the best. I’ll be like that guy. Such a fake.
Virginia Y
Okay, so guys, if you have any complaints, we’re going to collect them and do a blog post.
Corey Nickols
Send them all my way too, because I know where the coming from as well.
Virginia Y
Anyway, talking about all these amazing people, then you have had the opportunity to take photographs. So I wanted to ask you about a person that I’m really fascinated about. And especially lately, I’m a big fan of The Big Bang Theory. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I found out about the series. Very, very, very silly, which is quite embarrassing. But I watched them all. Oh, nice. Yeah. Now I know about the new series, which is connected to the Big Bang Theory. It’s about the young Sheldon. And it’s super cool. I haven’t started it. And I’m not quite sure if I will. Because there is a lot of set stories. And I as I told you to the previous episodes of the podcast, I’m very, I’m getting a set very easy. But anyways, because they’re very sad stories in this movie. I’m sorry, in the series. I’m not quite sure if they’re the right choice for me. But I love the young Sheldon, the actor. I mean, this guy is super, super gifted. Oh, yeah. And I saw that you have a photoshoot with him. And I was wondering, so bad what it’s like, and maybe you can even give us some details about that.
Corey Nickols
Yeah, definitely. So that shoot was actually it was a cover shoot for me magazine. I had a whole team we shot at I think like the CBS Radford studios, which was, which was very cool on top of that, but he’s a great kid. He’s such an old soul. I was actually very kind of taken back because I love photographing kids because I feel like I’m a kid at heart. Obviously, if you’ve seen my logo, that might not have been a far reach for you to accept. But we went back and forth with like, What do you want? Do you want to do like nautical pirate e type stuff? Do you wanna do magic Do you want to do so we threw out like a couple ideas. And then he was like, Oh, I love magic. And he really does. He actually loves magic. So we tried to create an entire photoshoot based around just magic things. But he’s great. I mean, world’s older than me. But also, he’s someone who’s just very talented. You know, he sings dance, he’s tap dancing half the time. Like, he was very obsessed with all the magic stuff. My prop stylist brought some finger smoke or whatever is where it’s this weird product that’s not actually smoke. But whenever you put your fingertips together and pull them apart, it looks like smoke, who It’s a crazy thing. It’s also the messiest thing. And by the way, my wardrobe stylist if you’re listening is I’m sorry, if any of the suits got ruined from the that liquid smoke.
Virginia Y
You can send us an email, you
Corey Nickols
know, for the blog post. Please done my is. So he was great. He was a super nice kid. He’s got a very old soul. And what’s so fun to work with.
Virginia Y
Awesome, exactly what I was expecting to be honest.
And is there someone that you’re super excited about shooting, you haven’t shot yet? And you just want to do it so bad. I was thinking about this today about myself. And I was like, Damn, you’re the perfect person to ask that question.
Corey Nickols
Where would you go first? Who’s the person who’s your bucket list person?
Virginia Y
right now is Lady Gaga. No, it’s great choice. Her music especially what what it was few years ago. It’s not my thing. But at the same woman. She’s an amazing actress. She’s just so stunning. I seen her first. I think it was seeing America horror story. And she was so amazing. I was watching the whole series just because of her. Because after the first season, I think that really ruined it. To be honest. She was super amazing. And the other thing is, she’s just succeeding, not caring about anyone else. And their opinion, she just succeeding. And I really love that. So I think she’s a very strong character, not just a woman. She’s a very strong person. And I would love to photograph her for those reasons. And also, I think she’s very beautiful in her own way.
Corey Nickols
Yeah, she’s super talented. I think she’d be a phenomenal person to photograph too, because she’s just very iconic. And I also find a lot of musicians can tend to make great actors, but it’s hard for an actor to make a great musician, just because I could think of so many. So many musicians. I’m like, wow, they’re great actors. You know, like, I actually I like Justin Timberlake as an actor. Lady Gaga would be another one. I think she’s phenomenal actress. What’s his name? lead singer. 30 Seconds to Mars.
Virginia Y
Oh, I love him. JOHN. Yeah. Oh,
Corey Nickols
Thank you. So you have a lot of like musicians that turned out to be great actors. And then vice versa. You’ll hear actors who start bands, and it’s sometimes it works. I have a weird gamut of people that I would love to photograph, I would say, Well, first, I’m a huge Arrested Development fan. So for me, my goal is to shoot everyone from the cast of Arrested Development at some point in time. I’m also a huge Breaking Bad fan. So my goal is to shoot every person in the cast from breaking bad at some point. But beyond that, though, just I want to like photograph really legendary people. I would die if I got to shoot Mel Brooks. Oh, I know Mel Brooks is getting up there in age. But I love Mel Brooks. I think Mel Brooks is genius. And I would probably die if I got the sheet Mel Brooks to be completely honest. But I love I love like Terry Crews.
Virginia Y
I love Terry Crews, also!
Corey Nickols
like Betty White, for example. It’s such a random name to throw out there. But I like I love Betty White. Betty White’s just been it for so long. And she seems like such a rad person.
Virginia Y
I know that right now. One. In particular. One of our audience members is just crying because of what you said. extremely big fan of her. Oh, really?
Corey Nickols
Yes. That’s so cool. Well, I’ll tell you, I like people who seem like they would be quality or just interesting in general. Anyone who seems like they’re kind of quirky and fun, like jack black, I think would be phenomenal to photograph because he seems great. Chris Pratt, same thing. Yeah. Bryan Cranston seems like he’s the coolest guy. Those are some people. I hope one day I’ll get to photograph
Virginia Y
But you know, we’ll see. The most important thing that I’m hoping during this dream is that when I get to shoot those people, or if I get to meet those people, they’re just going to be great people, even if we’re not cheating, if they’re like, just kind genuine people out be so happy. Oh,
Corey Nickols
Yeah, that is that is also the fear sometimes. I really like this person, I’d like to stay like this person. And yeah, but I will tell you this. And the amount of time that I have been doing this, I’ve also come to give a lot of grace towards people who have bad photo shoots with because sometimes people are people, you know, there are times where I go into a photoshoot where I have so much distress going on in my own life. They know like last year was really rough with my mom almost died at a certain point. And it was super hectic and all that’s weighing on me. But I got to go on with doing photo shoots and act as a people to they’re going through dilemmas. And you never know they might be going through a divorce that they’re not even talking about, they might be experiencing a recent death. I think in that time, like the one thing that I think is sad for a lot of people who are celebrities is that they get stripped from a very private life. And not only that, but a lot of people just want to take from them. And I think it’d be hard to be a celebrity. But I think at the same time I give a little bit more grace towards if someone’s a little bit rude or to me because I’m like, yeah, this person who knows maybe right before this shoot, they had a bunch of people who are trying to just take from them and feel important because they’re important, or maybe something happened in their own personal life, or I don’t know, like, I don’t know what it is. But there might be a reason behind why they’re just being really mean and kind of kicking the dog.
Virginia Y
Sometimes you can meet the person and you just don’t know what’s going on in their head. It might not be this person in their core, they can be very, very different in a different situation. And yeah, it’s not easy. And people say don’t meet your heroes. I would say just try to meet your hero twice to make sure.
Corey Nickols
That’s a great quote. Actually, that’s a great quote.
Virginia Y
Thank you. Because you don’t know what would have happened the first time. So if you have two or three meetings, maybe it’s going to be better.
Corey Nickols
Yeah.
Virginia Y
inquiry to be honest with you. I’m super, super glad we met because this was so nice conversation. I don’t know if people stuck to it until the end, because we talked about so many different things. But even if it’s just you and me, I really really loved it.
Corey Nickols
Me too. I love the longer format things. I also feel like you get to know more about a person and how it’s life. You know, it’s not just photo like you’re doing life. Thank you so much for this interview. Thank you very much. I’m glad we got to talk.
Virginia Y
What makes me really happy at the moment is that Corey promised me to come back for another conversation. And I cannot wait to do this second interview. In addition to that, I was wondering who would be the dream person for you who you would like to see in front of your lens share with us in our Facebook group called the fashion photography podcast. And for those of you that are new to the show, you need to know that we’re here every Wednesday with another guest a person from our industry to share with us their secrets, dreams and most empowering moments. And every other Friday, I’m here to help you thrive with your business by some little tips and tricks. So don’t forget to come back here this Friday when I’ll be sharing with you some secrets about the influencers and how you can get to them. Thank you guys so much for being with me today and I will see you on Friday.