How to find your dream client – with Mandy Stoller

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In this episode of the Fashion Photography Podcast we meet
our new and exciting guest Mandy Stoller (@mandystoller)

How to talk to your clients about the business side?
Photography scams and how to make sure you won’t fall in one of those traps?
How to get the dream photography client?

You can ASK US HERE everything you’d like to know know and we’ll answer in the next episodes!

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Hello, photography lovers! 

Welcome to another episode of your most favorite show… Or at least that’s what I’m hoping for.

This is The Fashion Photography Podcast.
And my name is Virginia.
I’m a fashion advertising photographer, and also the host of this show. Every Wednesday, we’re here with a guest.
And we’re sharing their experience with you. And every other Friday, I’m giving you some little tips and tricks on how to have a sustainable photography business.

And by WE, I mean me and the gorgeous producer of this podcast – George.

Today, as you probably know, is Wednesday. So we’re here with the guest. |
And some of the topics today are going to be how to talk to your clients about the business side.
We’re also discussing photography scams and how to make sure you won’t fall in one of those traps.
And also, as you can get from the title of this podcast, how to get the dream photography client.

If you want to hear more, you just have to listen to the podcast and of course, subscribe to our show!

Mandy Stoller
Hello, my name is Mandy Stoller and I’m a beauty and still life photographer at Los Angeles, California.

Virginia Y
Have you been born there?

Mandy Stoller
I’m actually originally from Nashville, Tennessee, and move to LA and 2013.

Virginia Y
To study may be?

Mandy Stoller
I went to art school in Nashville, Tennessee, and I got a BFA in fine arts and then actually wanted to go for my MFA and fine art Art Center or Cal Arts, I got accepted Art Center, but it was just very expensive program. So decided not to do it, but ended up moving to LA anyway just to pursue my career.

Virginia Y
Tina, I feel like you have lost something because of the fact that you decided not to pursue the next level of education.

Mandy Stoller
Now I don’t I don’t think it’s necessary for what I do to even have a bachelor’s degree. But I’m glad that I did do it. I really enjoyed going to art school. I think it helped me a lot develop more of an artistic side to my work that I wouldn’t have had otherwise,

Virginia Y
Really? Bcause that’s very interesting for me!
Most of the cast dad have been to university because photography, they usually say that it’s very, very technical.

Mandy Stoller
So I didn’t study photography, I’m actually studied, like painting and drawing and simulation. Yeah, I did take a black and white photography class. At the time, I was just like using the camera on audio was a really like paying attention or interested. But it wasn’t until after I graduated that I got more serious about photography and taught myself how to use the camera.

Virginia Y
So you are self thought?

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, I am.

Virginia Y
Oh my god, what was the hardest part?

Mandy Stoller
So I started teaching myself just because after I graduated from art school, I was still in Nashville, Tennessee, there wasn’t really a whole lot of creative jobs there. There’s the music industry. And there’s a little bit of TV and film that goes on there but not much. And I was working in film, as much as I could I was working at for over 21 and the mall to visual merchandising, it was just it didn’t seem like my career was really going to take off there. I wanted to shoot more video. So I got the five day Mark three when it came out. And I started just experimenting with video and photo. And then once I moved to LA, I was like, Well, you know, I need some useful skills to have a job. Since I didn’t really learn anything super technical in art school, it was more conceptual art. So I started teaching myself at pornography and just looked at different tutorials online, read whatever I could, I would go out and shoot with my friends.

Virginia Y
This is very cool. Do you have any particular useful resources that you would like to recommend to the people that are also trying to learn photography at the moment,

Mandy Stoller
I really like white science magic, that’s a great book for just learning about lighting and kind of understanding the science behind it, I think it makes it so much easier and less intimidating. And that really helped me a lot. That’s the main one that stands out. And I just watched like a lot of random stuff. But nothing in particular that I can really point out on YouTube. It was just if I had like a question, you know how to use the camera settings or specific things related to canon products, you know, it look things up. But that book is the main thing that helped me.

Virginia Y
That’s a great, thank you so much for and then you also said that you were shooting friends. And I was wondering, at that time, did you had any photography friends,

Mandy Stoller
Not really, that I can think of. I was trying to get into fashion photography, and some of my friends were aspiring models, so they like to go out and we would shoot together for both of our portfolios.

Virginia Y
A very important part of the photography business, is also learning how to talk to clients. And I really, really doubt that you had a class about this in your art. Yeah, so tell us about your struggles at those moments, because I’m sure you’ve had a lot of those and maybe some of the most valuable lessons that you’ve learned.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, when I went to art school day to uncover any sort of business related information. So really just had to learn on my own. And my main thing is, I always want my clients to be happy. So that’s really important to me. So I like to do whatever I can within reason to make sure that they’re happy and make sure that they know that I enjoy working with them and the salon experience, because their project is probably really important to them, or it’s their passion. And so being able to, you know, make them feel comfortable there you have this you’re going to create their vision is really important. I think

Virginia Y
you started the conversation about clients. So I’m just going to continue with that. Tell us about your very first client,

Mandy Stoller
I really just needed a job when I was in LA. And so my first photography client was little boutique shop, that they sold children’s clothing on Etsy. So I shot some of their clothing. Obviously, it wasn’t what I wanted to do. But it was good just to get some experience in the beginning. And then from there, I just kept, you know, practicing and getting better clients from there, and it just kind of kept growing.

Virginia Y
Tell us about those people? How did you find them?

Mandy Stoller
their very first client? Actually, Craigslist is kind of embarrassing.

Virginia Y
I don’t think there is anything embarrassing, especially the fact that it’s super hard to find your first client, it’s, I really believe that people should just give all of the in order to do that, because it’s just hard to find them. It’s also very hard to evaluate yourself and just accept the fact that you are ready for this.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, I think the heat to make money was like more important, like driving me more than if my work was like good enough. I was just like, I just have to put my work out there it is up to contact people and try it get something going. So that’s what really I guess pushed me to keep going and not get discouraged if I didn’t get a job that I wanted. I

Virginia Y
think that’s great actually, because out of necessity, you just have to move forward, you have a ladder choice, and you have no choice, you are ready to constantly just postpone it. Just not the best thing. I don’t know if you feel like it was great. But I think it was great for you. Because if you have this initial push, if you have this initial kick, you’re just ready to roll even if you don’t feel like so.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, I think it’s true. I mean, it definitely pushed me to get to the point where I am now in my career, because in the beginning I had to and now it’s more have choices of who I work with and what my rates are.

Virginia Y
How did you figure out your rates at the beginning?

Mandy Stoller
Well, the first job that I had, it was like $10 an hour. So not very good, especially for Los Angeles. 
I mean… My work wasn’t that good. So it’s not like I could charge thousands of dollars. But to be honest, I was really in the dark about it for a long time. There’s just not a lot of information out there. I would try to Google things like what do photographers make, but there’s so much different information out there. And none of it really matches. So it was it was very confusing to me. So for a while I was like $500 a day, that’s so much money. I mean, it was so much more than I made when I was working in retail or whatever. So to me, I was super excited about that. But I didn’t actually learn about what commercial rates are really like until I worked full time at a couple of different brands and houses suffered tog refer and sometimes they would tell me what the budgets for for shoots. And I would see those photographer got paid $50,000 that’s a really crazy compared to what I’ve been charging. So at the that time, that’s what I was like it opened my eyes was like I could actually make a lot of money into this. I need to figure out how to do that.

Virginia Y
That’s so exciting. Actually, did you felt like, Oh my god, that was the right profession.

Mandy Stoller
You know, I didn’t get into this to make a lot of money. I was just gonna have a camera. I guess I can use it to take photos and make money. But then when I realized that it was okay. All right, when I get really serious about this,

Virginia Y
When was the moment when you felt like you really succeeding in this job?

Mandy Stoller
In the past couple of years, because I’ve had some major brands reach out and express interest in shooting with me. And that’s really been the seal of approval, like oh, my work is at that level that I want it to be at if these brands are interested in me. And that’s been really encouraging to me.

Virginia Y
How did they approach you?

Mandy Stoller
They usually email me some brands have dm major Instagram, but I think the way they’re finding me is through Instagram, even though I don’t have a huge following right now,

Virginia Y
Guys, if you want to follow her now is the moment to share. What’s your Instagram handle? It’s Mandy Stoller nice and easy, right. And you can also find it in the show notes on photography podcast up that. So Wendy, tell me the truth. Did you go gold, the first friend that approached you to make sure that the email is correct. And it’s not a scam or something? I did not. However, I have heard about this scams lately.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah. Which is really scary. I’ve read articles about it. And they’re very convincing that it’s legitimately from a brand. So yeah, then

Virginia Y
You have already received the real email. And you’ve seen those articles. So do you have any hints for the people that are maybe in the position to receive a mail like this, like the real male very, very soon? Do you have any tips for them on how to make sure that a real brand behind this email?

Mandy Stoller
Sometimes people’s email address isn’t very, you can easily find it. Like if it’s the creative director from a brand. It’s not always listed online. So that can make things a little complicated in and some people have even I’ve read the articles where they’ve even talked to the client over the phone, which can also make things even more difficult to differentiate because you would think if they’re talking to you that this must be legit. But it seems like the scam is kind of similar to the Nigerian scam where they send you a check. And then they say it’s too much money or something like that, you have to send it back with legit brands, usually it’s like a 30 day or 90 day terms that they pay you on. So they’re not going to just send you a check immediately or anything like that.

Virginia Y
I think that’s a great hint, actually. Because sometimes it’s a big deal. And you have to wait for 30 or 40 days for your check. And it can be a really big deal, especially if you have have some production costs before the photoshoot. And there’s some how not covered? Have you ever had a case like this?

Mandy Stoller
I’ve been very fortunate that I’ve made enough money in my career that I have very good savings and a good credit line. So whenever I do have to front the production costs, it’s not a big deal. And then I’m able to just pay it back whenever the client pays me. So

Virginia Y
Since we’re on the topic of production, I know that you are also shooting a lot of product photography. Yes, with this and the city of the client. Would you started first with the beauty.

Mandy Stoller
So actually, I began with fashion and then I started doing more e calm and product and still life. And then I had just like a recruiter person from it was actually what they wanted to hire me to shoot for them in house. And so I was shooting mainly product, I didn’t really start shooting model until I started shooting with our goals. So that that actually came later that I got into beauty photography. Were you nervous and your very first photo shoot like that? Yeah. I mean, I hadn’t done any beauty tests before. So it was just like, I don’t really know what to. So how did you prepared watch videos online? And just this like, I can do this? I think I can. Just trying to pump myself up.

Virginia Y
Fake it till you make it. Right? Okay, and were you satisfied with the shoot? And what about the claim? Tell us more just take us behind the scenes. I love that part of the show.

Mandy Stoller
They were really happy with it. So that was a relief. And then after that, it was just like, Okay, I need to test more if I’m gonna be shooting this kind of stuff. So that’s when I got more serious about trying to test regularly a test about once a week for the past two yours now.

Virginia Y
Whoo. That’s a lot of testing

Mandy Stoller
Yeah. But I think it’s really helped. And I’ve collaborated with retoucher. So that’s helped, because otherwise, I wouldn’t be able to test that often because retouching takes so much time.

Virginia Y
So you’re not doing your own retouching?

Mandy Stoller
Only with product. But model I work with other researchers

Virginia Y
Tell us about the time when you start at testing, how did you approach model agencies? were you working with them or maybe with particular models that you knew beforehand?

Mandy Stoller
So several years ago, I was finding models through Facebook groups. When I first started, I mean, I didn’t think my portfolio was really good enough to approach an agency. But once I started developing more, and I failed to work with better models, then I felt more confident. And I approached the agencies. And of course, in the beginning, I was just testing with their new faces. But once I developed a relationship with them, and they trusted me and liked my work, they started sending their main models.

Virginia Y
Do you have any tips during the people that are trying to approach a modeling agency? What would you tell them to do? Should they call by the PR? Or should they email them? And what would you say if you were on their place?

Mandy Stoller
I think it’s probably best to email that way you can send them a mood board so they can see your concept and also your portfolio so you can see your work. And let them know that you’re going to have full team hairstyles and makeup artists so they know that it’s going to be quality work that you’re going to produce for them.

Virginia Y
That’s a great advice. And because you’re shooting so much makeup, I cannot stop myself because it’s a podcast and we cannot see each other. Tell me how aware you are of the makeup actually into use it in your everyday life.

Mandy Stoller
I actually do not wear makeup at all.
But I used to several years ago, I used to be really into makeup. And so yeah, I just I definitely understand like the application and thank you working to work full time with a couple of beauty brands. So being in the house, I was able to learn and develop all their products, I had to watch tons of YouTube videos by influencers doing like makeup tutorials. So that really helped me and I do think it’s important if you’re shooting makeup, even if you don’t wear it, or you’re not interested in buying it to truly understand the product so that you know how to photograph it properly.

Virginia Y
I think it’s the same even if we talk about just the pure fashion photography, you don’t need to know all the brands, but for example, you need to know the fabric so that you can know how to light it afterwards. And I think lighting specially when we talk about product is also very important. You share that you tested with models tell us if you tested with just products before you actually shoot with clients.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, especially a specific type of product that I haven’t shot before, just so I can make sure that I can make it look really good. When I use the proper lighting to

Virginia Y
what about your first big breakthrough of working with big clients and big brands? Do you want to share with us how it all started for you. And I’m really interested if you had a portfolio of products beforehand.

Mandy Stoller
First, my portfolio was just models because I was trying to do fashion. And then I started developing more of a product portfolio. And it kind of switch after a while I just had like a product portfolio only. And I just removed all the models. And it’s like I’m just going to focus on this. And now it’s kind of developed into both where I shoot both model and product and also shoot video

Virginia Y
Do you miss fashion photography.

Mandy Stoller
I do I do really like fashion. Oh, I just felt like in Los Angeles. It’s a lot of econ. There’s not too much commercial fashion or like bigger shoots that happened here. That’s kind of how I started focusing on beauty because it does pay more than what most of the fashion brands pay or,

Virginia Y
Well, that’s true. And also every time someone mentions LA, everyone’s thinking about beauty photography. So I guess the market there is super saturated.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, it really is.

Virginia Y
Tell us about the competition for beauty photography. What do you do to stand out?

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, it’s really saturated here with beauty photography, and I see a lot of people that get into beauty. And it’s really easy to learn Vidya I think because there’s so many really great and up tutorials out there that learning the technical aspect of it, is it too difficult, but what I think is the most difficult is developing your own style that stands out from the other photographers, because I do see a lot of people who are technically really great at beauty, but I can’t differentiate their work from another photographers. So think that’s probably key. And getting into beauty is just focusing on developing your own style.

Virginia Y
Do you think you have your own signature style, I think

Mandy Stoller
the my darker work, I feel like people kind of associate with our glass, a brand that I shot for. I do really like that style, because it’s very luxurious. But I do try to shoot more brighter stuff too, just because this is LA and a lot of people like that type of style more here.

Virginia Y
Yeah, we have to be honest, LA is like Instagram, totally Instagram prefers beauty and to be bright. Actually, this conversation about style is super interesting to me. And the fact that you mentioned that you prefer the darker style, super cool, because not very recently, but we had in the show to our grains. And he was saying talking about a style and how a photographer should change it once in a while. And this is a topic that it’s still very interesting to me. And I was wondering, do you think that a person can just shoot in one style, everything like shooting a dark beauty shooting a dark fashion? Because some names can come to my mind that I always shooting in the same exact style? But do you think that your audience is just getting bored?

Mandy Stoller
I think that’s a really good question.

Virginia Y
And a very long one.

Mandy Stoller
There’s definitely a lot of top photographers that I can think of that have a very specific style. However, I do see that they shoot, you know, major campaigns that are different from their style, which is interesting, because what I found is a lot of clients that approached me are very literal, and they want to see exactly what they want to get. And they’re like, do you have photos like this, that you can share? Because I don’t see something like that in your portfolio. So that is interesting to me that they are able to get those. But I think people are drawn to them because they have a very specific style and they’ve mastered it. And that’s what they’re known for. And so maybe they just trust them that they can also achieve other styles as well.

Virginia Y
I like that you mentioned that your clients are very literal, do you ever shooting as a test something that you would like a client to approach you for?

Mandy Stoller
Yes, I do that all the time. I try to target specific clients that I know probably have good budgets, and I like their aesthetic that I would like to shoot for. I think that’s important. Also, when beginning photography is to really identify the type of photographer you want to be the type of clients you want to shoot for, and developing a portfolio around that so that you can get hired by them.

Virginia Y
This was like a million dollar tip guys, I didn’t know if you felt like, this was just so good. Mandy, thank you so much for this for sharing your knowledge. And because I mentioned that the backstage part is the most exciting for me to want to share with us. What’s your photoshoot like?

Mandy Stoller
Product shoots, they’re usually pretty laid back. I think most of my clients, they’re very easygoing, they’re always super happy. So it’s very enjoyable to work with them. And I usually have an assistant or two and prop stylist, sometimes they have their system as well. And, you know, have my system help set up the lighting. And we kind of talked about the style of lighting that we’re going to do with the client and talk about their concepts course, you know, usually get the mood board and the brief beforehand, but we go over it together in the morning,

Virginia Y
How often you’re involved with the idea beforehand. Does your client ever ask you for your input, or they’re always like, here’s the mood board, this is what we want,

Mandy Stoller
I would say the majority, they already have exactly what they want. Because they’re more established brands, they plan these things like a year in advance sometimes. So with those type of clients now I’m not really involved in the creative process. But on occasion, I will get a client where they’re like, what do you think about this? Or can you send us some photos for ideas for a concept that usually they already have it all planned out? I would say.

Virginia Y
And that’s actually very cool. Because you know, especially with big brands that you’re going to have amazing results. You just have to appear to then just do it. Another thing like these type of moments, because everything is just so arranged, you know what to do step by step.

Mandy Stoller
Yeah, definitely. I think it makes it easier to achieve something really beautiful because it’s all very organized and they know exactly what they want. So you know you’re not on set like experimenting a lot or being like do you like this? Or what if we tried this, you know, don’t waste time or just you know exactly what you’re going to do and you do it, and then it’s good.

Virginia Y
Okay, and if you don’t know enough, you can find more on photography podcast.net, where we’ve got all of our previous interviews and some inspiring articles just for you. Our next meeting will be on Wednesday, same time, same place. If you’re afraid you’re going to miss it, just subscribe to our podcast so that you can get a reminder next time. Thank you guys so much for being with us today. And I cannot wait to see you next Wednesday.

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